Templar Connect » Inconsequential Prattle

Project: Poorcraft

(267 posts)
  1. I agree with Wagner in disagreeing with Ivan about electronic devices. Dude, I have a patent in fiber optics, I *do* have fantastic fine motor control when I care enough and I just don't want to spend my time taking apart various devices and messing with fiddly bits nor do I want to have to keep around a full set of tools, remember to keep solder and flux around, and so on. I too have an el cheapie LG cell phone that I've carried around and abused no end for three years now and while it's a bit flaky it still works. I don't know about where you live, but around here an old laptop is a couple hundred bucks at most and given that NEW netbooks can be bought for, at most $250, they're damn useful if you don't need something able to play the latest video games and/or can use them to make a longer commute worthwhile abd thereby make more money.
    Go to liliputing.com and then tell me that laptops are massively expensive. For most people if they take basic measures to keep a laptop protected (don't get it wet, use a neoprene case, don't shove things into the jacks), then it should last for about two years. This makes it a simple cost-benefit equation that will vary per planned use and per expected user. What does it cost to buy/own it? How much money will I save/make by having it? I would never presume to claim that this question will always get the same result.
    Frankly, Ivan, this is a thread about advice that is useful for most people. If you're going to give advice that starts from the premise of stripping out and rebuilding compact electronics, you should be asking yourself if you're posting this to help those around you or to show off your "leet" skills.

    Haha oh man yes soldering, that lost and mysterious art of poking a thing with a hot $2 piece of metal until it isn't broken anymore. What was I thinking, bringing all that fancy book-learnin' egghead stuff in here.

    I think we can pretty much skip over anything to do with cooking, carpentry, wiring, gardening, crafts or car repair if we're aiming for your level of learned helplessness and apathy. Maybe just delete the whole thread and replace it with a post saying "fuck it who cares" hotlinked to Pricegrabber, lord knows nobody wants to learn how to save money by doing anything themselves. Or maybe you should quit whining and crying at someone describing how they've saved hundreds of dollars on silly shit, or pointing out how most phones fall apart after one to three years when your own is "flaking out" right on schedule.

    If you need a cellphone for work or that's the only way you can keep in touch with friends and want to get a prepaid for like $20 at K-Mart, I sure as hell ain't gonna stop you. But nobody in this thread or anywhere else gives a shit what luxury goods I blow my spending money on, and in no universe real or imagined is 'buy an iPhone' great financial advice for the impoverished so how 'bout you go white-knight your favorite brands on a product review site or whine about how there's too much boring math in math textbooks why not just buy a calculator or whatever it is you do when you're not wasting my time.

    .

    Woodworking depends a ton on what exactly you're doing, and I'm still not sure what aspect of it'd be fitting here, but there's a few really basic things that are consistent. The big, obvious one is that all the strength of wood is in the grain - whatever you're making, you need to plan it and cut it so that as much of the force as possible runs parallel to the woodgrain, not across it. Most basic stuff you'd be making would be out of 2x4s and dowels that are already cut that way, but it's got a wider application than that. Glue, nails, these are not load-bearing connectors, they're just there to keep the joints from slipping off each other from normal movement. Here are some halfway decent illustrations of some wood joints - they've got some pretty useless ones on there, but pretty much anyone can make a butt joint or miter joint that'll do the job. Finger and box joints are pretty universal when doing furniture but they're a major pain in the ass without a woodshop (don't bother making furniture unless you're a mountain man or trying to learn a trade. Or trying to learn the trade of being a mountain man). Dowels are easy, drill a hole the diameter of the dowel an inch or so into the board (depending on the scale of what you're doing), slop on a bunch of glue (or not), and pound it in. The whole thing can be pretty crude and still work well, the big thing is to make sure everything fits snugly - if it's loose somewhere, that means that all the stress is actually going onto whatever tiny part isn't loose and the whole deal will come apart that much faster.

    Wood from the hardware store is expensive. If you're trying to keep your home from falling down and you can't get your landlord to bring in a qualified crew or something, yeah it's pretty much worth it but for anything where you can afford to risk potentially less stable/correct materials you might want to check your local salvage yards first. There's no Goodwill for old materials, people just chuck 'em and just like at thrift stores most of the time they're in pristine condition. Around here, and in lots of rural areas, people like to just throw old building materials along with appliances cars and whatever else in a ditch, usually the appliances are a lost cause but I've found some nice pieces of composite and even fancy hardwoods just soaking in the rain.
    Look out for wood that's warped, has knots, or especially external signs of infestation or decay. A plank that's got a couple knots in it isn't a big problem if you aren't going to be carving that spot or putting nails through it, but a warped plank isn't good for much and I can tell you from personal experience bringing one that's got a termite tunnel into your house is a great way to explore the fantastic world of the disaster refugee a few years down the road, when you suddenly realize everything wooden you own has been turned to bugshit and your house is collapsing.
    Look out for wood that's been pressure-treated (green, waxy), or isn't real wood. You might not be able to tell what it is, but basically anything that looks or feels 'off' in any way probably is. You can still work with it, but you definitely want to do it outside and possibly with some kind of dust mask. Look out for wood that's got nails or other wierd metal things embedded in it, depending on the lumberyard they may be common and if you're using scrap they're pretty much guaranteed, but if you're not aware of them they're a great way to fuck up your saw or possibly your face when it comes to cutting time. If you're using power tools yes you need to wear goggles, btw.

    Tools from the hardware store are expensive. Don't buy 'em. This is America, every single household in the country has a dude who likes to think of himself as a handyman who has maybe replaced a broken chair leg, once, five years ago. Come yard sale season, you can barely take a step in the suburbs without tripping over somebody's spotless full wood shop complete with table saw dust collector drill press jig and half a dozen hand tools for cutting obscure little bevels in things. Pawn shops are usually overflowing with old tools, whether they offer a good price on them or not depends on factors apparently unrelated to supply or demand though. Like I said in an earlier post, most cordless drills/tools in general are a risky buy when they get old unless you're willing to research and shit or buy some new semiconsumables, but I've got completely excellent corded tools from the fucking fifties and hand tools that had to have been made in the nineteenth century, and got hard use most of that time too. You only really need hand tools for anything, but I get bored easily and appreciate being able to rip through big hunks of wood/steel/whatever in a couple seconds that'd take an hour by hand. Plus they go SCREEEEEE, which is just fundamentally appealing in a small sharp twitchy metal thing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. maecrab
    Member

    Yeah, I have to agree with you that fixing old things is always better than buying shiny new gadgets, which is really all my iPhone is. It's worked out well for me because 1, it was a gift from my nerd family, and 2, my nerd family has an iPhone family plan, so my monthly payments aren't too bad.
    You're wrong about there not being a Goodwill for building supplies, though. Many major US cities have at least 1 Habitat For Humanity Re-stores, that recycle everything from lumber to major appliances. It's great for picking up things for older houses, especially; people renovate buildings and donate old crank-open windows and stuff all the time. The stuff's cheap, the workers often pretty knowledgable, and they'll cut lumber to size for you. Quality and quantity of materials can vary from place to place, though. And a good place to get housepaint, from crappy to very good quality, is to check with your city's hazardous waste disposal. In Austin, at least, they had a big warehouse space stacked with the remnants of people's indoor and outdoor paints, free for the taking; whitewash to designer colors. A good place to get big chunks of rock for gardening and landscaping use, and this is very site-specific, and you probably won't need this unless you own your house, is a nearby quarry. At the limestone quarry outside Austin, the machined slabs and columns on the site, and they sold the fuck-ups and scrap for cheap by the pound. If your city has green or human waste recycling, you also might be able to buy high-quality compost from them fir pretty cheap, but I don't know anyone personally who has done this, so I can't say for sure how viable an option that is.
    I have to say, I'm learning a lot here just by reading the critiques people have been giving on the things that have been working for me so far. The thing is, when the first or second option you take (on buying cheap noodles, for example :)) works well for you, you hesitate to try something that might work BETTER.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Having been completely fucking broke for about 10 years now has taught me many lessons, but one that is often overlooked is buy a good backpack/bag if you're going to be on the move a lot. I spent a good five years hopping from room to room, town to town, and I was dumb enough to not look beyond the price tag when buying a backpack. I'd always buy those cheap $15 bags that would last me less than a year with the usual load (sketchbook, pencil case, whatever book I'm reading, wallet, phone, toiletries, water bottle). I'd sometimes sew them back together, but after a while there would be so many damn stitches to fix that I would just throw them away a buy a new one.

    About four years ago, I finally gave in and bought myself a $60 backpack. This one, to be precise:

    It's only now starting to show some wear. And I'm talking 4 years of really heavy use, including carrying heavy loads of art supplies to art school and back for two years. When I got mugged, the mugger grabbed my backpack and tried to get it off of me by tugging on it really hard while pushing me in the opposite direction. Nearly dislocated my shoulder, but the bag? Still with me -- he couldn't get if off of me at all, much to his frustration (suck on it, loser!). The bag lost a total of one stitch on one of the shoulder straps from that ordeal. Had it been one of those cheap backpacks, it would have fallen apart for sure, and it would be my 5th or 6th bag for sure by now. This baby has paid for itself and would still be going strong, if not for a couple of small holes on the side (because my monster cat has been chewing on it for years).

    In good poor fashion, I can't afford a new one. But when I can, you can bet I'll be buying myself something that will cost me a little more but will last me a few years rather than a few months.

    Edit -- on the subject of gadgets: I have a Nokia N73 which was not a cheap phone back when I got it in 2006 (I got it for free with a new contract), but now it's already 3 years old and hasn't given me any major problems. It has locked up all of once and sometimes it's a little bit slow, but it's a great goddamn phone. The battery life is unbelievable, the camera is excellent, it plays mp3s, and because it's a Symbian smartphone, I can run pretty much anything on it. Gmail, Google Maps, you name it. There's a shitload of really useful apps for it, and even though it doesn't have all the fancy shit that the iPhone has (and doesn't look as cool), you can get one of these in good condition on eBay for $180 and it's sturdy as hell - I've dropped it countless times and a three-year-old once threw it it against a wall in a tantrum (all children are *~ magical angels ~*). It's got some scratches on the screen and a small dent on the back but it's still going strong.

    It's of course not exactly cheap, but if you need both a good digital camera (I need one to take reference pictures for my artwork) and a cellphone, buying one of these would probably be worth it. I had been given a fancy phone to renew my contract, which was stolen four days later (fffffffffuck) and while it was a great phone, it had already needed to be charged twice in that four day period (I charge my n73 about once every 4 days) and had locked up a couple of times.

    I don't know about the rest of the Nokia N series phones, but I seriously cannot recommend the n73 enough. It's certainly cheaper than an iPhone, in any case.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Yeah, I have to agree with you that fixing old things is always better than buying shiny new gadgets, which is really all my iPhone is. It's worked out well for me because 1, it was a gift from my nerd family, and 2, my nerd family has an iPhone family plan, so my monthly payments aren't too bad.
    You're wrong about there not being a Goodwill for building supplies, though. Many major US cities have at least 1 Habitat For Humanity Re-stores, that recycle everything from lumber to major appliances. It's great for picking up things for older houses, especially; people renovate buildings and donate old crank-open windows and stuff all the time. The stuff's cheap, the workers often pretty knowledgable, and they'll cut lumber to size for you. Quality and quantity of materials can vary from place to place, though. And a good place to get housepaint, from crappy to very good quality, is to check with your city's hazardous waste disposal. In Austin, at least, they had a big warehouse space stacked with the remnants of people's indoor and outdoor paints, free for the taking; whitewash to designer colors. A good place to get big chunks of rock for gardening and landscaping use, and this is very site-specific, and you probably won't need this unless you own your house, is a nearby quarry. At the limestone quarry outside Austin, the machined slabs and columns on the site, and they sold the fuck-ups and scrap for cheap by the pound. If your city has green or human waste recycling, you also might be able to buy high-quality compost from them fir pretty cheap, but I don't know anyone personally who has done this, so I can't say for sure how viable an option that is.
    I have to say, I'm learning a lot here just by reading the critiques people have been giving on the things that have been working for me so far. The thing is, when the first or second option you take (on buying cheap noodles, for example :)) works well for you, you hesitate to try something that might work BETTER.

    See, I know nothing about phone plan group buys, I just get prepaid cards, so you probably spend way less than I do on a per-month basis. Are you tied to whatever plan you get when you get the phone, or what kind of limits are there and how do you shop around for a good deal anyways?

    Didn't know about the used building materials lot, that rules. Being HFH, do they help you set stuff up too?

    Cameras are great. If you're trying to do action photography or fine art you should know better than to cheap out, but for web documentation and other odds-and-ends once every few months the no-name Chinese makes are totally adequate (and if you take them outside they get awesome). Big common drawbacks I've seen are that their effective resolution is lower than the stated one and size of the image saved (640x480 seems to be a common size for the largest clean-looking image, Aipteks get maybe 800x600 or so), and if you move the camera around too much while shooting you'll get some funky vertical distortions. The last couple generations of image sensors have been good enough that it's basically the same deal with digital that it used to be with film - the camera body itself is less important to the final quality of the image than the lens and lighting, and you can make lighting.

    For more serious applications or where you're willing to drop a couple hundred dollars, used older versions of digital cameras aren't typically a great deal, each successive generation is substantially better and cheaper than the last, but lenses don't go obsolete. Canon kinda screwed everyone when they switched to their autofocus format, the old manual lenses are a bitch to get working on any modern camera, but apparently a lot of the other makes are fully backwards-compatible and even with Canons I've paid 1/10 what I should for high-end glass because the previous owner broke some random element which took a five-minute phonecall to the parts center and a hundred-odd bucks to replace.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. The n73 is actually equipped with the equivalent an old 3.2 Sony cybershot (down to the Carl Zeiss lens) and since I use the photos for pose reference, it does the job very well for me. I've never had any problems with it, and it gives me internet and phone along with a decent camera.

    I wasn't suggesting that people use a phone camera for fine art nudes or anything. I was suggesting a good cellphone that is now fairly cheap and has a good enough camera for taking photos for drawing ref.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. Yeah I got that was just talking about cameras for those who don't have camera-phones.

    Been trying to figure out a way to use the cameras on old phones for some time now, since I could get a few dozen of those on a long weekend easy and do something fun with 'em, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to separate them from the whole normal phone service deal.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Guys advocating small Asian markets and the like, remember that those are a feature of large urban areas. Not everyone has access to those, and for some people, Ramen is the cheapest pasta you can buy. I mean, it's super great if you have ethnic grocery stores scattered all over the place. I do, and I want to have a dim sum party simply because 1) I like it and 2) I can find a million kinds of dumplings and buns for crazy ass cheap two blocks from my house. But when I was growing up, ethnic food was crazy stuff like feta fucking cheese or hummus. It was really hard to find that. And some places? You can't get ricotta cheese unless you drive an hour to a larger town.

    My advice to people who live in those areas is to move as soon as you possibly can, for the love of GOD.

    I'm kind of baffled by all the people who don't know how to cook rice. Brown rice was such a huge staple when I was growing up (and still is) and we always cooked it in a heavy bottomed pot. Perhaps that's what you're doing wrong? You need a very heavy pot so it heats evenly. Don't stir it while it's cooking, it'll get gummy. And don't keep it at a "low boil," it needs to be barely simmering.

    If you burn your rice, soak the pot in hot water and some soap. If you burn it terribly badly and the bottom is all charred, then sprinkle salt on the bottom of the pot and rub it with a cork. The smoothness of the cork transfers all the grittiness of the salt to the pot's bottom and it works better scrapin' wise. You could also use one of those steel wool pads, but I hate them. I used to wash dishes for a living and if you use those enough they tear chunks out of your fingers.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Asian markets I dunno about, but unless you're living in deep rural Iowa or something, there's probably at least one Mexican market somewhere around that comes out to the same thing. I had the same experience growing up but the ethnic makeup of pretty much everywhere has changed a bit since we grew up. I haven't been anywhere in the last five years, and that includes some parts of deep rural Iowa, where there wasn't some kind of low-priced hispanic grocery hidden somewhere.

    Whether you know about them or not is another story, at least here in the South planners go to great lengths to ensure that the white people in the countryside developments never have to even drive past the Hispanic communities a couple miles down the road on the outskirts of town, that those are separated from the blacks, etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. Ivan, I grew up about an hour outside of Chicago. My neighborhood (which was the unincorporated outlying area of an otherwise Whitey McCrackerville) was about 90% Hispanic. It was, and is, still a trek to find any grocery stores that carry Hispanic "specialty" stuff (like, say, refried beans. or jarred tamales.), let alone ARE Hispanic grocery stores. My mom supported herself for a huge chunk of her life as a cook, and it's something that she enjoys doing. She recently has begun branching out to Indian cuisine and is having a hard time finding spices. She knows the area, she knows how to use a phone book, she knows how to google for stores that carry the stuff she wants. And she still has to drive around for it, usually into Indiana.

    A lot of these types of books and threads and discussions are predicated on the idea that one can reasonably get to a non-mainstream market and that is not always the case.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Asian markets I dunno about, but unless you're living in deep rural Iowa or something, there's probably at least one Mexican market somewhere around that comes out to the same thing.

    Here in Springfield, MO, we have a couple of Mexican markets and one or two Asian markets. The problem though is that they are full of absolute bullcrap. I've been in several Mexican "markets" That have nothing more than tortillas, Nesquik, and Spanish VHS tapes for rent. The Asian markets are full of Japanese candy. A lot of the time it's not worth it. Our best resource so far is knowing people who hunt, since we end up getting a lot of free meat that way. Hell, my fiance's sister just gave us a pound of buffalo meat because she got it for free at her work and she's a vegetarian so she has no use for it.

    I also don't know if this has been addressed yet or not, but learn to love drinking water. I've got a few friends who absolutely cannot drink something unless it is some sort of flavored drink, and that just seems like a giant money sieve to me. I have a weird aversion to carbonated drinks that I've had since I was a child (drinking carbonated drinks feels like swallowing glass to me), and because of that I learned quick that water is free and tasty (many birthday parties and other events were spent drinking water because the only drinks provided were soda). Movie theaters will give you a free cup of water if you ask for it, so you can sneak in an apple or something and avoid paying 4 bucks for a small beverage to go with it. There are a lot of health benefits to not drinking soda and drinking more water.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Yeah, all the Eastern European, Asian and Indian markets are in town, not where we live.

    Of course, that's not a problem if your city has semi-decent public transport (like Dublin does), but not everybody is quite so lucky. Especially not in the USA.

    Flee thee, icy Lucifer.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. Especially not in the USA.

    God if that ain't the truth.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. When I was in Texas I couldn't even drink the fountain drinks, let alone plain old water.

    Sorry people who live in Texas, but your water is fucking foul. At least in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I hate my parents' water, too. They have a water softener and the texture of the water is weird. The texture. Of the water. WTF. When I visit them, if they don't have juice, I just don't drink anything.

    Also, where I grew up? You had to drive 15-20 minutes just to get to the metra (commuter) train (at peak times it comes once an hour or so, off peak times it comes every 3-5 hours, it stops running over night), and then after an hour long train ride you were in Chicago. You wanted corn fields? You were set. Soybean fields? Have at it. Tiny horse farms? It's there. A decent selection of grocery stores and/or public transit? IT IS TO LAUGH.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. LouisatheLast
    Member

    Can we get a section on cooking/catching small game? Squirrels, pigeons, rabbits, etc. There usually isn't any restriction, or it's only a cheap license with no season, and guns do not necessarily have to be involved. This could be an important source of protein for people living out in the country. The city has a lot of these animals too, but it might be legally more tricky there.

    One form of free entertainment that I think deserves a bit of exploration is readers theatre. For this, all you need is a group of friends and a play from the library, preferably more than one copy of it if that's available. If not, it's an excuse to cluster up and get close anyway. Hang out on the porch, hand out roles, and put on a show. Radio plays work particularly well for this. A similar activity could be a drum circle, where the drums do not necessarily have to be drums- coffee cans, garbage cans, pots and pans, whatever makes a noise. This is especially great to entertain a large group of children. Fairs, parks, etc are golden, but only when the weather is good, so some rainy day activities are great too.

    Is there a section yet on childcare? That's a real budget-killer. Maybe some guidelines on choosing an in-home daycare (by far cheaper than daycare at a center- BY FAR) and ideas for working out alternative arrangements. Obviously the best is to be able to leave your child with a relative, but sometimes parents can work out groups for mutual babysitting, or you can trade house cleaning/cooking/some other service for babysitting.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. A lot of our entertainment involves board games, which have an initial investment but after that are free. Cheap Ass Games are especially awesome, as they are, in fact, cheap ass. I also pick up games at thrift stores and yard sales. Even if the game sucks or is missing pieces, tokens and dice and counters and money can be stripped out and used for CAG.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Ivan, I grew up about an hour outside of Chicago. My neighborhood (which was the unincorporated outlying area of an otherwise Whitey McCrackerville) was about 90% Hispanic. It was, and is, still a trek to find any grocery stores that carry Hispanic "specialty" stuff (like, say, refried beans. or jarred tamales.), let alone ARE Hispanic grocery stores. My mom supported herself for a huge chunk of her life as a cook, and it's something that she enjoys doing. She recently has begun branching out to Indian cuisine and is having a hard time finding spices. She knows the area, she knows how to use a phone book, she knows how to google for stores that carry the stuff she wants. And she still has to drive around for it, usually into Indiana.
    A lot of these types of books and threads and discussions are predicated on the idea that one can reasonably get to a non-mainstream market and that is not always the case.

    The smaller ones are sometimes hard to find via phonebook, as they're often listed by the owner's name or something retarded like that. Given where you are it'd be really strange for there to not be any low-cost community market available, even if it's not specifically one kind of ethnic grocery or other - your kind of small-town hispanic communities that spring up to fuel suburban development are always the first place I look. Maybe you're just in a wierd area, though, nothing we put here is gonna apply equally well everywhere to everyone. Some towns don't have a bodega, some people don't want to cook, some places have wierd rent policies, some people have phone batteries that defy the laws of physics.

    Can we get a section on cooking/catching small game? Squirrels, pigeons, rabbits, etc. There usually isn't any restriction, or it's only a cheap license with no season, and guns do not necessarily have to be involved. This could be an important source of protein for people living out in the country. The city has a lot of these animals too, but it might be legally more tricky there.

    Snares are bullshit, if that's what you're thinking. They might have been a good idea back in the fourth century when everyone for sixteen miles around was dying of the plague and you had all day to sit around making traps for the rats crawling around your lightless hovel, but these days a pound of real meat is, what, six dollars tops, less than an hour's work, and nobody is gonna waste five on catching, cleaning, and gnawing the tiny scraps of meat off of vermin unless that's just how they get their jollies.

    If you've got a vegetable garden and are casting lingering glances at Peter Rabbit hippity-hopping about in there you can get traps from the same place you got your other garden supplies, but that's not gonna be common enough to stage a diet off of and I don't really see most people who aren't already hunters eating him instead of letting him loose in the woods or tossing his corpse in the wastebin. If you're a hunter, you get a pellet gun or a .22 and cut short the whole process.

    I can copy some bits from outdoor survival guides here if you want tips on how to scald and clean critters for whatever reason, but this is kinda like the dumpster-diving thing - if you're getting your tips from a helpful comic book published by an Internet forum, you don't need to be doing it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Sorry people who live in Texas, but your water is fucking foul.

    My fiance grew up in West Texas and has permanent stains on his two front teeth because of the city water. I don't know what the hell they put in it, but it really did a number on them.

    I just grew up with good 'ol hard well-water. If you let it sit too long little flakes of calcium start forming!

    after an hour long train ride you were in Chicago

    God I am jealous. Where I grew up it was a half-hour drive to the nearest walmart-type store, and that town had 14,000 people in it. My mother grew up in a suburb that was an hour away from both Milwaukee and Chicago and she never bothered to take the trains to either because they were "too far away" and that just drives me crazy because we had to drive at least 2 1/2 hours to get to St. Louis, the nearest big city. And I never went there as a teen because I was too terrified of driving in a city.

    Oh god I did not mean to make this post read like a "well you think YOU have it bad..." post but somehow I think I did.

    Back on track, money saving tricks! If you have a car it is likely it will get much better gas mileage if you keep it filled up with gas rather than running it on fumes. I used to just put about 10 bucks worth in my car every once in awhile to make sure i wouldn't run out of gas between my home and my work, but then I discovered that splurging and filling it all the way up saved me money. Also, keep an eye on gas prices when you're driving around. Chances are there's a particular gas station that is always a few cents cheaper than the others. Some are also "early warning stores" that change their prices before the other stores, and if you keep an eye on it you can usually see when gas prices are going to go up and fill up before that happens. Avoid gas stations close to interstates, as they're almost always about 5 cents a gallon more than stations in town. Try to avoid having to fill up in rural areas if you can, as they are commonly 10-20 cents per gallon more expensive than more urban areas. If you have a smartphone or a laptop there are a lot of applications/programs you can get that will show you where the cheapest gas is around you, too.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. LouisatheLast
    Member

    Ivan- it's true that hunting small game is somewhat esoteric, especially if you don't own a gun, but so is repairing electronics, and you defended that as worthwhile. In reality, a lot more people are probably capable of roasting a squirrel than they are of hacking a cell phone. It's just as unnecessary to build a computer from spare parts when there are cheap ones for sale new as it is to trap/shoot a new source of meat when there's nice clean meat wrapped in plastic at the grocery store. As a matter of fact, I'm watching Gordon Ramsay's F Word right now, and they're doing a segment on eating gray squirrels.

    I don't think anyone is expecting anybody to follow every tip in this book. I wouldn't personally be interested in dumpster diving for food- durable goods, sure, but not for food. But other people will be, so it's worth including if the authors feel like it should be.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Ivan, my neighborhood was about two blocks by one block in size. It was originally founded as a place to house migrant farm workers, but the settlement was never completed. So there's this tiny enclave of Brown people in the middle of forest preserve, horse farms, and farm farms. It's pretty surreal. The president of the town referred to our neighborhood as "Taco Village" on national television during a kerfuffle a few years back where the park district tried to condemn all the houses so they could take the land we were on, under the assumption that a bunch of fuckin' Spics wouldn't be able to stop them.

    Uh. Except that a bunch of people living there had a history of community organization and activism, and my dad's a journalist.

    What I'm trying to say is that it's NOT a large community and is surrounded by racist assholes.

    Kory, a lot of my friends refused to drive into Chicago or drive to the train station to take the train in, because it was "just too far." And scary. OH MY GOD THE BIG CITY. Small towns are really damn insular and I'm incredibly glad I don't live there anymore.

    I was born in a small town where it was common to pick up fresh-looking road kill and take it home to cook it, and where people hunted and ate squirrel (among other animals).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. maecrab
    Member

    Something that we seem to be running up against on multiple fronts in this discussion: being poor can be incredibly time-consuming and exhausting. If you're trying to work as little as possible, then you might have a lot of free time, but if your poor because you're a student, parent, or trying to make it as an artist, your free time is probably a valuable commodity. When it comes to things like doing extensive repairs on electronics or clothes or whatever, or hunting or harvesting your own food; sure doing all of these things yourself is the cheapest you can do, but I think your average poverty-stricken individual is better served by a jack-of-all trades text with a lot of good tips on everything, because chances are someone will be more or less interested or have more or less resources available to them in particular areas.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. fishcake
    Member

    Holy crap, I go on the road for like half a day and already I see drama and like two different tangents in this thread in the space of one page. DON'T KNOW IF UNIMPRESSED.

    So i've pretty much come to the conclusion that this guide is very American centric and urban centric (which isn't necessarily a BAD thing). Am I dead on the money with this one?

    It's probably been said before in this thread, but it couldn't hurt to say it again: urban poorcraft and rural poorcraft require two different skill sets. A lot of the stuff I see listed here either doesn't exist for miles or is completely irrational given the amount of time and resources i'd have to put into it.

    Maybe there should just be a page titled rural living, and the only thing on it is Nickel holding up a sign saying "GET OUT OF THE BOONIES". Rent might be cheap and you get ot own more than two trees, but you won't be caring about that when it is costing you $40 a week just to keep your Corolla fueled up.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Holy crap, I go on the road for like half a day and already I see drama and like two different tangents in this thread in the space of one page. DON'T KNOW IF UNIMPRESSED.
    So i've pretty much come to the conclusion that this guide is very American centric and urban centric (which isn't necessarily a BAD thing). Am I dead on the money with this one?
    It's probably been said before in this thread, but it couldn't hurt to say it again: urban poorcraft and rural poorcraft require two different skill sets. A lot of the stuff I see listed here either doesn't exist for miles or is completely irrational given the amount of time and resources i'd have to put into it.
    Maybe there should just be a page titled rural living, and the only thing on it is Nickel holding up a sign saying "GET OUT OF THE BOONIES". Rent might be cheap and you get ot own more than two trees, but you won't be caring about that when it is costing you $40 a week just to keep your Corolla fueled up.

    Well yeah if you are poor and you don't have at least some kind of community supporting you you are fucked. Not necessarily a city, but that's the easy one and if you're already in the kind of small town that helps its people out sage advice from the Internet probably wouldn't apply. I've been throwing in crafts-type stuff you might need if there's no resources in town on the assumption that people probably know what they've got available locally, and been getting a lot of complaints about that too.
    You wanna get shit done either you do it yourself, you join up with some other people and do shit for each other, or you pay to have everything done for you, 'live out in isolation on a small budget, but without expending time and effort' is kinda an oxymoron.

    Ivan- it's true that hunting small game is somewhat esoteric, especially if you don't own a gun, but so is repairing electronics, and you defended that as worthwhile. In reality, a lot more people are probably capable of roasting a squirrel than they are of hacking a cell phone. It's just as unnecessary to build a computer from spare parts when there are cheap ones for sale new as it is to trap/shoot a new source of meat when there's nice clean meat wrapped in plastic at the grocery store. As a matter of fact, I'm watching Gordon Ramsay's F Word right now, and they're doing a segment on eating gray squirrels.

    I don't think anyone is expecting anybody to follow every tip in this book. I wouldn't personally be interested in dumpster diving for food- durable goods, sure, but not for food. But other people will be, so it's worth including if the authors feel like it should be.

    The difference being if you screw up splicing a cable, you get kinda frustrated, and if you screw up preparing game you go to the hospital. There's some subjects I'm not particularly comfortable with encouraging people to follow my non-expert advice on. I'm not particularly worried about the liability issues that'd make that kinda thing completely stupid to put in a book, I'd just feel like shit if I put up some authoritative-sounding walkthrough on how to clean a deer and some fool got themselves killed trying to follow it.

    If you do get hold of some kind of game, you want to clean it right away, and assuming you've got a newspapered-off bit of kitchen or somewhere equally clean for that you pretty much just strip the skin off (I'll find an illustration in a bit, I've never done small game myself), pinch the intestinal tract off at both ends, and scoop out the organs out being careful not to rupture anything. 'Shit in the food' is bad news of the get sick and die kind. Basically the same as any raw meat, keep everything as sanitary as you can, wear gloves and rinse everything out whenever you can. You really shouldn't eat pigeons probably, but if you get some kind of bird that isn't widely known for living in filth and eating garbage you don't even have to worry about skinning, which is nice, just dunk it in a pot of boiling water and paraffin and wax the feathers off. Whatever you get, cook the hell out of it, even pretty nice wild animals from way away from the city have tons of parasites and stuff that'll be just as happy to infest you.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. By and large, I agree that urban and rural poorcraft require different skills though in my experience, most of the rural skills work just fine in the city if you've got the space and are willing to learn the skills from scratch. Also, on the "we don't have ethnic markets near us" tip,
    A.) Back when I lived in Wisconsin, everybody living broke I knew who had their sh*t together had at least one extra freezer (ideally in the basement and with the lid on top) and all of us would periodically get together and go on massive buying trips, not to mention the much mentioned here dividing up of game from hunting. Yes, it's more of a pain in the butt however, if you have anybody you can pool efforts with, if only to cut the boredom, do so. Why mention the freezer? Because much of what we're talking about can be frozen and therefore be bought only once or twice a year.
    B.) If you're reading this, you can get on the internet. These days almost everything we've mentioned here can be bought online. Again, you'll really want to do a small number of big orders instead of many small ones to cut down on shipping costs but it's still cheaper than shopping at normal stores.
    C.) If you've got that kind of space, then do what country people have always done and make more from scratch. We've had so much talk about pasta here. Well, folks, pasta is fuckin' easy to make and you don't need any special equipment to do it. But again, people get all fancy pants about it and insist "I only eat it when it's very fresh". Bully for you but if you're doing this to save money, then you should be making massive batches and drying them. Bread can be frozen, too and pickling/canning can be great if you enjoy that kind of thing. Btw, much of the justification for pickling/canning is to store things up from when they're cheapest. If you're buying veggies at most times of the year and canning them to "save money" you're probably not doing your math right. It's at its best with things like beans, strawberries, and the like which erupt for twency cents a pound for a little while and then get much more expensive within a month or so.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to be independent, then read up on the fundamentals. Ivan has a good point about wood properties but you can spend a lot of time and waste a lot of materials and enthusiasm getting to know things that are out there to be read about quickly and easily. For example, Dover Press has excellent books on damn near anything like this and Eric Sloane's book are all back in print as cheap paperbacks now. A Reverence For Wood should be a standard junior high textbook afaic. If you have access to a friendly used book store, tell them to watch out for issues of Foxfire, which is kinda clunky but is THE bible of certain kinds of back to the land stuff.
    In general, if you want to learn old skills that don't involve food, you should be looking for books from the late 1800's and very early 20th century. They're available in antique markets and at tag sales for a few bucks each and were designed to teach things like masonry to people whose English sucked and who would be working in the filed within days of picking up the book. I learned a lot of what I now know about this kind of thing buying ratty copies from street vendors who get their books by the pound or at estate sales and are glad to find somebody who doesn't care that the cover is stained and the paper a bit warped. Truth is, the options now are far better than they were in my long ago youth but those old pocket guides are still a damn good way to gethca up and running.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. Linkies.

    Dover - http://store.doverpublications.com/
    Eric Sloane - http://www.ericsloane.com/
    Foxfire - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxfire_books
    Some folks doing "rural" stuff very nicely, thank you in the city - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/magazine/05allen-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=growing%20power&st=cse
    (I've visited these folks and, trust me, the article doesn't begin to capture how kickass this thing is.)

    Aaaaand, yet again, The great and wondrous American Science and Surplus where you can get all sorts of tools, guides, and even jars for storing dry goods in (as I have). - http://www.sciplus.com/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Oh, and these folks may not be cheap (mostly) but they're very damn good. - http://www.chelseagreen.com/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. listless_luna
    Member

    When I was in Texas I couldn't even drink the fountain drinks, let alone plain old water.
    Sorry people who live in Texas, but your water is fucking foul. At least in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I hate my parents' water, too. They have a water softener and the texture of the water is weird. The texture. Of the water. WTF. When I visit them, if they don't have juice, I just don't drink anything.

    You think Dallas water is nasty? Drive an hour or two away from the city and try some of the small town's water supply. It tastes like dead fish, dead fish and ass. Horrid stuff. Oh and there is a little problem with a lot of their small towns still having ancient pipes throughout the city, which as you can probably guess adds a whole new level of ew to their problems. Lead in your water supply is not good. I seriously recommend that anyone who can afford it should have a water purifier, even if it's just one of those little ones that cover your faucet. It may cost you but safe, tasty water is a necessity in my book.

    Also I registered today just to give this one little tidbit of advice about home remedies. Do not use rubbing alcohol in an attempt to lower a fever. My MIL told me to try this on my son and when I told his nurse the next day she nearly had a fit. Rubbing alcohol can take a tiny, tiny bit of the temperature away and it may feel cooling but it doesn't lower the fever noticeably, also the fumes from the alcohol can overwhelm you and interfere with your breathing.
    If someone has a fever the best thing to do is to take some generic brand fever reducer. If the fever still needs to lower then I would suggest drawing a bath of luke-warm water. If you are cold go ahead and warm it up a little bit, you don't want to start shivering because that will only make your temp. spike. The idea is to let the water draw your temperature down naturally.
    (I learned this from the local hospital when my son had a very high fever. It seems like common sense and I trust that the nurse knows what she was talking about.)

    Of course if your fever is very high and won't go down, if you start feeling really out of whack or are shivering even though your fever's high I recommend going to the doctor or the ER. Some things demand medical attention and it's better to give in and get it than be partially brain damaged because you were being stubborn.
    Plus in Texas hospitals can not force you to pay for your ER treatments at the time you receive them. They will be pissy when you insist that you've got no money but they'll generally go on to try to work out some payment plan. Trust me, they want their money so even if you can only send in twenty bucks a month they'll take what they can get. I'm not sure if this applies in other states but still, better safe than sorry right?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. Asian markets I dunno about, but unless you're living in deep rural Iowa or something, there's probably at least one Mexican market somewhere around that comes out to the same thing.

    I dunno man, last time I went to the supermercado to get the stuff to make dim sum it did not turn out well at all.

    Rustin: Ditto on the Dover! they may not make dollar books any more, but dang to they have a hella library.

    listless_luna: That's just what I know from childhood, my dad was an RN and all, but he was trained in the 70's, so I am sure stuff was different.

    Hey, also, RE: ubran v. rural, I think Spike said:

    I've reconsidered the working title, and think POORCRAFT: A Cartoon Guide to Frugal Urban and Suburban Living would be ideal.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. Hey dudes, free porn if you stop the drama.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. Texas water is widely varied. Some cities get it from reservoirs, some get it from aquifers. And it's likely that those front teeth stains are due to them over-fluoridation of the city's water, which happens sometimes (more often in small towns because they don't have the facilities to do proper testing.)

    Austin water is totally drinkable, you just have to get used to the fact that it's sort of crunchy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. Austin water is totally drinkable, you just have to get used to the fact that it's sort of crunchy.

    . . .

    Posted 1 year ago #

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