I could probably do some basic outdoor living tips, though pretty much the only really useful thing would probably be 'if you're gonna be homeless be homeless in a city with steam tunnels, not fucking Vermont in the dead of winter'. Hunting small game is pretty cheap but in an urban setting it isn't at all practical or safe, and it's way easier to snag half a bag of corn chips from the back of some restaurant than it is to stalk squirrels in the park with an air rifle.
Templar Connect » Inconsequential Prattle
Project: Poorcraft
(267 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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Furious Sterling
MemberHunting small game is pretty cheap but in an urban setting it isn't at all practical or safe, and it's way easier to snag half a bag of corn chips from the back of some restaurant than it is to stalk squirrels in the park with an air rifle.
That's probably a pretty good way to get arrested as well.
It is always high school on the internet.Posted 1 year ago # -
I am loving all the stuff here (and Penny!! I love the look of her lines so hard). I second the need for clothing mending needing to be mentioned, 'cause it surprises and startles me how much people don't know. Darning is the easiest thing, it does not need to look nice and it saves knitwear (except t-shirts) amazingly. Most of the clothing I own are hand-me-downs and having the ability to fix why they were castoff is priceless.
Ditto to basic carpentry skills. My mom always taught me that just because you live poor does not mean that you should live in a poor environment. Fixing that effed up leg on the table you got from the side of the road and repainting it makes your personal space better, which makes you feel better, which makes life better.
Hosting parties cheaply? Potluck. Why anybody would supply all the food for an event is not something I understand. Outside of potlucks, the same basic things Brigid and Spike went over.
What I've found, from underwear to art supplies, is that there is always a version available that is not for the target demographic. You buy outside that demographic and it is cheaper. Men's and boy's underwear is cheaper than women's, most art supplies (outside of archival and super specialised) can be picked up in hardware stores or from taxidermy places. Balsa wood from hobby stores is cheaper than that from art shops or hardware stores.
The Dollar Tree has been priceless in supplying us with basic office and household supplies. Envelopes, zip baggies, foil, laundry baskets, etc. I do not buy their steak though, gross. Goodwill locally is a shit. One is better off looking at the places that are church organisations, their prices are lower and they do not mark up for name brands.
Knowing your neighbourhood is the best thing you can do. What areas have the most free boxes? When are the library sales (go on the last day, they're normally a dollar for a bag and the useful cooking and household books are the last to go)? Can non-students use the university library? Is there a farmer's market? A community garden? When are events that have cheap food? Are there free lifestyle (mending bikes, house, etc) classes?
I am the worst person to talk about medical stuff because you should not do what we did for so long. However, get yourself (via library or Project Gutenberg) some resources from the turn of the century about medico stuff. Boyscout handbooks are also priceless. Other than not being able to go to your corner druggist to buy laudanum, the options are similar to what the average person has available. Alum on a bit of wet cotton knocks out tooth pain from an exposed nerve, alcohol rubs help with fevers and so on.
I'd add also that if mass transit is available, learn it and use it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
How to approach, I have no idea, but there are a lot of sliding-scale clinics these days and this'd be a good time to bring up Planned Parenthood for the lady poorcrafters as a resource. ER and dentistry kinda screw up the entire poor plan.
Oh! Also most places will do a payment plan, if you set it up before they do work on you.
However, ahem, after seven years a debt is no longer valid. Like I said, don't do what we did with medical, but my ER bills from the mono I had in my late teens are naught but ghosts now.
Posted 1 year ago # -
AngryRobotsInc
MemberIf you're going to be using public transit frequently, consider throwing down the money for a bus pass. It'll be more all at once than bus fare, of course, but it usually is cheaper in the long run, if you use it enough. (Just checked HRT, our local public transit. Bus fare is $1.50 for an adult. $50 for a 30 day bus pass. Use it 33+ times, and you'll get your money's worth, if not more)
For just tooth cleaning sort of dentistry, check local colleges, if they have a dentistry program. They usually have their students doing them, on the cheap. A good option, if you don't mind getting worked on by a student.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Giovanna
MemberFor just tooth cleaning sort of dentistry, check local colleges, if they have a dentistry program. They usually have their students doing them, on the cheap. A good option, if you don't mind getting worked on by a student.
The same goes for haircuts, too, for those of us that cut our hair. While doing it yourself is certainly cheapest, I know I would look terrible if I did it myself. xD
I definitely agree with learning how to repair clothes. The problem is that a lot of people do it and they do it wrong. It's as simple as learning a few different types of hand stitches. I have to shorten every pair of pants I buy or wear the back hems to death. Being able to sew has saved me the price of going to the cleaner's.
La donna e mobile...Posted 1 year ago # -
Hah! I was gonna mention the bus pass thing.
A bunch of stuff I thought of, some of it is a bit "well, duh". Some of it might be totally useless.
- do not get hung up on brand names, branded food, fancy packaging, up-to-date fashions. (unless you live in a place with shitty safety regulations, like China). Buy own brand supermarket produce, buy no-name plain t-shirts etc. (A lot of people I've met find this idea rather intolerable, so I thought I should mention it. Not insinuating anything about anyone here, promise.)
- I already (sorta) mentioned this, but instead of throwing out old clothes, either fix them or alter them. I have a jumper my mother knitted from the remains of a different jumper; I have a tunic my mother sewed from two different garments. Likewise, learning to knit is really helpful; most of the hats I wear were home-knitted ... once again, by my mother.
- pool together resources with friends. Carpool to grocery stores, swap stuff they need for stuff you need and so on. I had a (filthy rich) friend give me a whole bag of clothes that were out of style by about three years, that she'd bought and never worn. Unfortunately, poverty means sacrificing some dignity.
- learn to like walking. A lot. Like BZedan said, it's a good idea to know your neighbourhood REALLY well, and to know the shortest routes to shops, libraries and so on.
- know where your local homeless shelter/St Vincent de Paul Society is. Better to know now and never need it than to frantically be looking for it when things really go south.
- I guess it'd be a good idea to drop by butcher's/grocery stores/fruit and vegetable shops just before closing time and see if they're trying to sell off produce close to its sell-by date for cheap. I'm not entirely sure if this'd work; I seem to remember we used to do it, but that was when we lived in a place that had a separate butcher's shop.
- (very duh) buy ... uh, raw material for making porridge (oat, semolina and so on) and make porridge for breakfast. It's more filling than cereal and should work out cheaper than buying cereal all the time.
- this may not apply to everyone, but my grandparents, who live in rural Russia, used to go berry-picking in the summer. It's free vitamins! But I think that only works if you live near proper wilderness that nobody owns.Flee thee, icy Lucifer.Posted 1 year ago # -
Man Penny rules.
That's probably a pretty good way to get arrested as well.
Open carry has been technically legal everywhere I've lived, and squirrels have no rights, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to try it. Foraging in general draws cops like flies on shit - as does walking (as opposed to driving), carrying visible electronics, or wearing poor-people clothes in rich or touristy areas. My experience of being poor enough to not be buying my food or clothes was that it's pretty much going from one pat-down to another as part of a concerted police crackdown on obscure misdemeanors that do not as a matter of fact exist in any law books. If you're identifiably poor police are going to do everything in their power to make your life miserable and that's just a fact of life. I never got much extra trouble for carrying knives or an e-tool or anything, but anything big and (especially) valuable like a gun would probably be a whole world of shit. At the very least you wouldn't keep it.
Were I stuck and flat broke out in a rural area I might try rigging a shelter or hunting for survival, but even with cops considered it's still way easier to just find food and a roof in a city than try to live out in the country, and you get in fewer fights staying in a disused store or utility shed or something with easy access to food in a ritzy area. Boy Scout training is practical insofar as it teaches you how to deal with cuts and sprains, non-recreational use of much beyond that is gonna create more problems than it solves.
For less desperate circumstances hunting is pretty simple and low-skill, the one key ingredient that can't be had for a hundred bucks is land. Depending on where you live you probably need at least a square mile or so to yourself to reliably not kill anybody or draw heat, and if you've got property that can be measured in the miles you are not that bad off. Deer are fucking vermin and a sometimes farmers will let you use their land in exchange for putting a dent in the hundred-pound rat population, but using other peoples' land is strictly seasonal. If you're east-coast there's more hunters than there are hunter-friendly grounds, last I recall it's a lot easier out west. Either way, it'd be more of an occasional meat bonus than a primary source of sustenance.
- this may not apply to everyone, but my grandparents, who live in rural Russia, used to go berry-picking in the summer. It's free vitamins! But I think that only works if you live near proper wilderness that nobody owns.
Power lines. If you're living anywhere near the suburbs or country, heavy power line trails are basically no-mans'-land and an ideal interstitial environment for most berries (assuming berries grow where you live). If you get to know them, they're also a safe mode of foot travel that's away from the road and most houses. I still know my local power line trails better than Google Maps does, old habits die hard.
Medicine: Do rich people actually approach medicine any different from us poors? I guess they get family doctors in place of the free clinic and emergency room, but otherwise I'd think it'd be pretty basic. Rubbing alcohol, aspirin, Swiss Army Knife, lots of fluids - otherwise, clinic.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It's a good idea to keep a first-aid box of medicine, bandages and plasters, at the very least. But that's a good idea even if you're middle-class.
Taking a first-aid class should be vital, though. There should be free ones at community centres and so on, right?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't know about bandages, actually - here referring to stuff like band-aids, not plasters for when you've got like third-degree burns all over your body or whatever. If you can't just lay around waiting to heal my experience is bandages actually make things worse by slowing down scabbing and healing, giving you more time to get something horrible in there. Compress with an alcohol-soaked rag until the bleeding slows, let it sit for ten-fifteen minutes, carry on.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Bandages are useful if you cut yourself badly enough to justify going to the ER, but are bleeding a bit too much for comfort. Purely a stopgap measure.
I tell you, I wish we had some bandages on-hand when I drove a knife into the side of my hand by accident. I had to use toilet paper to stem the bleeding long enough to run out for help.
Also, bandaging may help with sprains or pulled/sore muscles.
EDIT: Should've clarified, I meant cloth/gauze bandages.
Posted 1 year ago # -
- this may not apply to everyone, but my grandparents, who live in rural Russia, used to go berry-picking in the summer. It's free vitamins! But I think that only works if you live near proper wilderness that nobody owns
Yes! I don't know about cities but if you have easy access to rural areas berry picking is great! We have a lot of gooseberries and raspberries and blackberries around here and they are all amazing.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The milkcrate picture reminded me - small-space gardening. You really need full sunlight to grow most vegetables well, but say you don't have any space outdoors/gardening capability but do have, say, a big well-lit window. You can still make one of these:
That's three bolts and six nuts (about a dollar), a vase and bowl from Goodwill for a buck apiece, a hook I found somewhere and kept in a bag for a year, and I think two dollars of chain because I got the nice-looking one instead of the cheap stuff. Glass is tricky to drill (ten bucks for a nice diamond bit helps a lot), and the earlier no-cost version of this involving a wine bottle kind of exploded - you might want to try clay or porcelain instead.
The bowl is caulked at the bottom (and isn't visible when it's not being lit from the bottom - anyway rubber bands or gaskets or glue work if you can get a watertight seal from 'em), the vase has some gravel at the bottom and the soil the plant was growing in at the top, excess water drips through the boltholes and collects in the bowl. Assuming you get something shade-tolerant and water it the plant won't get sick, won't get bugs, won't really need attention beyond watering, and will vastly improve the air quality in the room (and looks alright). If you can get a hold of some shade-tolerant beans or berries or hallucinogenic shaman herb or something, that's bonus.
Carpentry's probably something I can actually help on, since I've done a hell of a lot of it, only I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. Furniture patterns can be found to any spec or personal taste from crafts places, home repairs in my experience are a pretty straightforward combination of muscle and OH GOD ANTS.
I guess in general my only advice is that a cordless drill is the single most useful tool you can own - shit, with one in hand and some scrap material you can make most other tools if you really have to. The DeWalt ones are cheap, and unlike most of the other makes you can actually get a decent deal for one at a pawnshop because the batteries don't age like the Li-Ion ones pretty much everyone else uses. Ni-Cads seriously rock, one of the few things left you fix by beating 'em against something hard until they stop being broken. Also, they fit this, which can just barely take one of these, which means you have the littlest machine shop and can make basically anything that exists.Posted 1 year ago # -
AngryRobotsInc
MemberOh, and a note about the homebrewing talk. A lot of places in the States (don't know about elsewhere) have very specific laws about how much (and what) you can make, per year. It's best to look into that, if you plan on making your own alcohol.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Wow! This thread is amazing. I look forward to coming back and reading it all. Just to respond to one thing, several of my friends keep chickens. In fact one was just over here for dinner. And the sense that I get is that they need a certain amount of space (heated, usually, and with the right balance of ventilation and places to perch and such), attention, etc. but what they mostly need is to be in the hands of the kind of person who can commit to being there every day.
Chickens are dumb. Compared to chickens, bowling balls do particle physics for fun. So you've got to be there for them. This, of course, is mostly fixed cost. Being there for ten chickens isn't much more work than being there for two. Count up yet another one for living in a shared household.
Posted 1 year ago # -
We should probably have a section on basic sewing/knitting/repairing clothes, incidentally.
Between Brenna and I, we've got that chapter covered! I constantly repair Metz's work clothes, his hoodies, and our socks. Refashioning clothing is something we both do (Brenna with more frequency and more awesome results). I'm totally willing to experiment with some of the poorcraft fashion ideas.
Re: Alcohol; beer = good, liquor = bad. Mead falls somewhere in between the two, though.Posted 1 year ago # -
And the sense that I get is that they need a certain amount of space (heated, usually, and with the right balance of ventilation and places to perch and such), attention, etc.
Guess what? Chicken butt.
(No, I mean chicken coops.)Posted 1 year ago # -
mioche
MemberMore clothing:
Knitting is not cheaper than buying your own second-hand clothes. Cost for materials for a sweater with long sleeves commonly runs $50-100... unless buying very, very cheap yarns (which can present its own problems) or you're buying sweaters from Goodwill and salvaging the yarn. At which point, you want to check the seams carefully to be sure that the pieces of the sweater can be taken apart into whole, separate pieces. Otherwise, you'll end up with a bunch of yard-long strips. Ask me how I know.Cold-water wash your clothes, and air dry as much as possible. They'll last longer (and you'll save a buck if you can keep from using the dryer at all).
Medical:
Take care of yourself.If you cut yourself, keep it clean. If you bump something, ice it so it doesn't swell as much. Hurt your ankle? Stay off it if possible, and wrap it if you can't. Heck, wrap it anyway. Treat infections quickly, before they become costly problems.
Some home remedies hold up well against modern medicine. Some are epic fail. Read up and use your discerning brain powers to determine which ones aren't full of shit-- they can often be cheaper (for instance, plain yogurt definitely beats out Monistat in price-per-oz. That's really probably the only one I know. Everything else is cured with ibu-profen.)
Get a list of the "country doctors" and variable cost clinics in your area. Keep this list handy for when you need it, because otherwise it will be tempting to limp in to whatever closest to you. Frequently you can also find variably priced services from chiropractic services and counseling. If you need a prescription and your doctor prescribes a brand name, ask for a generic alternative. Check out places like Planned Parenthood for birth control.
Provided your income is low enough, state-provided low-income healthcare can be a bargain (I was on it briefly for ~$25/mo). This can be worth it.
Dentistry: I have no clever ploys here, but I swear that paying extra for good toothpaste is worth it in the end. At least if you use it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Re: knitting sweaters, yeah, we would re-use wool we already had.
Also, we're in Ireland, so warm clothes are not so much of a concern.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Gods yes, knitting is so expensive from scratch.
Double yes on chickens, that's another one of those "know your neighbourhood" as you'd be surprised where you can and cannot have chickens. The boonie suburbs I live in? Only just now is making that legal. The city forty minutes away? You can have up to five (or three, can't remember).
Posted 1 year ago # -
The quality of Goodwill stores varies greatly. The ones in Austin are very nice, but then, they have to compete with a tremendous number of thrift stores and used clothing places. Also something to note: the Salvation Army is a religious missionary organization and some people have a problem with that, some people don't.
There's a cheap paperback version of The Merck Manual that's like seven bucks at CVS. Very handy, and you'll still be able to access the information when your neighbor suddenly secures his wi-fi and you have to start going to a Starbuck's for internet access.
Speaking of which, I could write up something about cheap computers and cheap internet access. Having internet access can make living cheaply a lot more bearable, since there's so much free entertainment and information, in addition to access to things like Craigslist, etc.
For example: if you are poor, don't buy a laptop, even a used one, no matter how tempting it is. Laptops are much, much harder to repair when they break than desktop machines, and you will almost never be able to scrounge up upgrades or replacements from your geek friends. (A friend of mine managed to avoid buying a new computer for like ten years because a mutual friend and I kept giving him our cast-offs.) Laptops also break more easily. Instead, get a desktop with a separate monitor. If you have a good TV (because you splurged once), you can use that as a monitor instead and save space. Austin has these guys who always have insanely cheap used desktops; cities which don't have a company like Dell headquartered there may not have as good deals, but it may be a better deal even with shipping. Learn how to use an easy Linux distribution (like Ubuntu) so you don't have to worry about software licensing or malware. Linux also runs on old, cheap hardware, and you won't be tempted to buy a fancy video card to play videogames.
And along those lines, Playstation 2 game consoles can be had for insanely cheap and there are an incredible number of good games out there for it, many of which can be found at pawn shops and the like. You can also get Dreamcasts and Gamecubes for next to nothing, although the software library isn't nearly as good.
Cell phones can be cheaper than landlines. It depends on what you're getting and how much you use it. Getting a friend's second-hand phone, unlocking it, and getting a pay-per-minute SIM card can be much cheaper than the alternatives, and it won't lock you into a two-year contract like the "free phone" deals that most cell providers offer.
You can usually find a pair of bookshelf speakers at Goodwill or something that you can hook up to an old stereo receiver from the 70's, and which will sound better than a modern $300 surround system from Best Buy. Get one of these cables and you can hook up your PC, an iPod/whatever, or an old portable CD player. (I wrote up something about the cable scam on my LJ some time ago.) You can also use a DVD player or most game consoles as a CD player; there's no need to buy a separate one.
Rechargeable batteries require a tiny bit of up-front investment but can save you a lot of money in the long run. I haven't bought AAs or AAAs in like five years.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Home brewing for beer looks like it's about $80 to $100 for the initial setup, plus about $30 for every "batch" of supplies from there on out. However, this will brew about 5 gal. of beer, which comes out to about 53 bottles, or almost 9 sixers.
After brewing supplies (not counting bottles or the raw ingredients), you're still looking at paying around $50 for $80 of beer. Plus you get to say you made it yourself, and add all kinds of crazy shit to it; homebrew oatmeal stouts are delicious, and you wouldn't believe how good chamomile tastes in a golden ale.
We've got some friends who do home brewing, and I'd be more than happy to crunch the numbers with them this week. I'll get back to you on this with more precise numbers.
Homebrewing can be an expensive hobby if you become a really rabid enthusiast [sheepishly raises hand] but it can also be inexpensive if you manage it just right. This kit costs only $60 and will get you all the basics you need, minus an old stock pot for boiling wort. Ingredients will typically run you $25-35 per batch, unless you're brewing something particularly strong, hoppy (the hop shortage isn't as bad as it was, but it still means making imperial IPAs is expensive as holy hell) or exotic. Hell, you can make plenty of exotic beers on the cheap, depending on what ingredients or techniques you use (I made a stout with cocoa nibs, cinnamon sticks and cayenne pepper that only cost a few bucks extra over the initial malt/hops/yeast cost).
The casual homebrewer won't need to worry too much about details like wort aeration or pH - the biggest thing to watch out for is sanitation. Using a bleach solution to sanitize stuff may be the most immediately cheap thing to do, but over time I find it's actually cheaper in terms of time and money to use a no-rinse sanitizer like Star San. One container of the stuff, used properly, will last practically forever and doesn't have a chance of ruining your beer like bleach does.
Little things add up too: Reusing old bottles is easy and saves tons of cash, you can use table sugar for priming batches for carbonation instead of specially purchasing corn sugar, and you can use paint strainer bags from Home Depot to filter out hop crud from the wort going into the fermenter.
If you have a garden area and can build a trellis, you can even grow your own hops. Just don't expect to get a big batch until the second year or so.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't know if these sites have already been discussed, but Lifehacker.com and Instructables.com are both really good sites for DIY projects and other cheap things.
Thrift stores are fantastic if you have the time to really root around to find the good stuff. You have to be prepared to come out of a store completely empty handed, though, because there are many times when the selection on any particular day will just be crap. Get to know your local flea markets, too. We have many around town (including the infamous S.T.Ds), and many have really good deals on any sorts of miscellaneous crap you might need. My favorite local flea market (which is actually that S.T.Ds from the photo) has a whole booth full of cheap vintage clothing. I got a really nice leather tassel jacket with all the tassels in perfect shape, no spots or stains on the leather, and the lining completely intact for 30 bucks.
My main problem with thrift stores is that sometimes you don't know when to say no and put the clothing back. If they have a "whatever you can fit into this bag for one dollar" sale, it's hard to not just grab any old thing and buy it. Not only will you never wear it, it will just contribute to clutter in your house. Ironic tshirts from the 90s are funny, but how many XXL tshirts with the Loony Tunes dressed up as Kris Kross do you really need?
Posted 1 year ago # -
how many XXL tshirts with the Loony Tunes dressed up as Kris Kross do you really need?
Nil.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Nil.
If it were possible, I'd even recommend negative numbers.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The Salvation Army is a religious group that is anti-gay, if that matters to you.
In various places in the US (notably Chicago, where I'm at) there's a quality chain of thrift stores called "Unique." Mondays, everything is half off, which means I'm garbing my baby for less than $1.00 usually. New baby clothing is crazy ass expensive. I've also gotten sturdy, name brand jeans for Nesko for less than $5.00, and stuff for myself for very cheap as well.
My uncle bow hunts (and fishes) and they eat what they catch. They take large game (deer, mostly) to a custom butcher to get it dressed. They purchase very little meat and almost no fish. They have a chest freezer to store the meat-- an item that Nesko and I are saving our pennies for.
If you are in the US, you can get books, movies, and music at the library. You can even get books on tape, which actually you can download from the comfort of your own home (at least in Chicago). You can also, again possibly only in Chicago, check out museum passes and go to museums for free. Yay Chicago!
Nesko and I don't eat a lot of meat, which saves a lot of money. Beans have a lot of protein AND fiber and are very filling. Yes, you will fart. It's part of being human.
http://www.iasshole.org keeps chickens and has posted a few times about them, including constructing the house/run.
We've bought a lot of furniture (especially bookshelves) on Craigslist. We got our crib there for $25 instead of $250. Yes, it has teethmarks. It's also still sturdy. A lot of people are jackasses and don't know what "depreciation" is, so you'll run through a LOT of shitty ads where people want new price for their five year old flat pack veneer crap furniture. But you can find some really ace stuff as well. Auctions and estate sales are also prime furniture sources. I've owned 3 couches and never paid more than $5.00 for one. We've also picked up some decent furniture from people moving far away, often for free.
Posted 1 year ago # -
AngryRobotsInc
MemberIf you get the newspaper look at the classifieds every weekend, or just check online. Yard sales, church sales, and the like can be a good source of cheap furniture, clothes, books, and the like, if you're willing to wade through the crap.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The Salvation Army is a religious group that is anti-gay, if that matters to you.
They also refuse to let workers marry other Salvation Army workers or something really weird like that.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If you have a garden area and can build a trellis, you can even grow your own hops. Just don't expect to get a big batch until the second year or so.
Okay, I need to combine this with the whole milk crate garden thing. Transportable hops? Hell yes!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Abandon
MemberThe Salvation Army is a religious group that is anti-gay, if that matters to you.
I will be sure not to wear my "I'm a big gay, ask me how!" shirt when I head into them, then
Personally, I would get a little selfish satisfaction from the fact that they are helping me out without realising it. Mentioning it after you have finished buying whatever you like and watching the expression on their face might be worth bringing a camera for, too.
An inch. It's small and it's fragile and it's the only thing in the world worth having. You must never lose it, or sell it, or give it away. You must never let them take it from you.Posted 1 year ago #
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